RX8 Starting Problems | RX-8 Flooding issue
December 3, 2008 · Print This Article
The RX8 (and many other new cars which comply with EURO 4 emissions) can be prone to flooding. The reason for this seems to lie with the need for the catalyser to be warmed quickly to comply with EURO 4 emissions. This means that initially the engine runs very rich increasing the risk of flooding if the engine is not allowed to warm up before switching off.
The manual gives advice on starting which will minimise the chance of problems. The recommended procedure is to depress the clutch; do not touch the accelerator; crank the starter until the engine starts, even if that means cranking the starter for up to 10 seconds. The engine sounds a bit different from a piston engine when starting and can take longer to catch but it’s best to keep going rather than have several attempts.
If this does not work after several attempts then either call Mazda Assist or fully depress the accelerator and crank the engine for 10s (This actually shuts off the fuel to the engine and helps clear fuel from chamber), then try to start as above again. Alternatively removing the fuse to the fuel injection system and cranking the engine should have the same effect.
If this doesn’t work then the plugs may need to be removed to clean them.
Following an episode of flooding the functioning of the cat should be checked by the dealer as it has been known for the unburnt fuel to damage the cat.
In practice problems only seem to happen following a short move from cold e.g. moving car from garage to driveway. If you need to do this then run the engine for a few minutes or go for a run round the block before switching the engine off.
- Use jump leeds to connect to additional power source (see note 1).
- Unplug Air pump connnector (see note 2)
- Take fuel pump fuse out (see note 3)
- Crank for 4 seconds, pause for 2 seconds, repeat for about a minute
- Leave for a minute
- Crank for 4 seconds, pause for 2 seconds, repeat for about a minute
- Put fuel pump fuse back in
- Crank for up to 10 seconds, if it catches but doesn’t start, stop cranking
- If not started go back to step 3
- If started, wait 30 seconds for oil pressure to rise
- Stand on throttle until white smoke stops coming out of the exhaust
- Disconnect jump leads
- Leave to warm up on idle for a few minutes
- Put air punp connector back on (see note 3)
- Go for a nice long drive to recharge the battery
Notes
An additional power source is required as the standard battery will not crank the engine for long enough to clear a serious flooding. Eiher connect to an additional high capacty battery, or to another car with its engine running.
The Fuel pump fuse is number 22, a 20A, 3 from the top of the second column of the fuse box.
The air pump connector is on the black circlular motor housing to the left of the oil filler cap. Removal is recommend to reduce power drain on the battery, to prevent fuel vapour blowing back in to the chambers, and to reduce the possibility of a backfire after starting which can damage the catalyst.
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THE FLOODING MYTH
This is part true, but mostly untrue.
If you start up an RX8, move it 2 feet and then stop the engine, you dramitically increase the chance of flooding the engine (for the reasons described by crabacle above). It’s not a certainty though. That said, it is strongly suggested you don’t do that.
You don’t have to go on a 10 mile run to avoid the problem though (although it might be fun).
How to minimise the chance of flooding
1 - If the temperature gauge is in it’s normal position (normally there after ~5 minutes of driving), then it’s highly unlikely the engine will flood. So don’t worry about it.
2 - If you need to move the car a short distance when it’s cold (it’s ok when it’s already warm - see point 1), sit there and enjoy the music/engine/exhaust note for a few minutes until the temperature gauge begins to move. Once this has begun to move, it’s highly unlikely to flood.
3 - Follow the shutdown procedure (although generally option 2 is preferred). There is a leaflet provided by Mazda with the newer RX8’s that covers this.
4 - Go for a short drive (couple of miles). Preferably down some twisty country lanes. That should warm both you and the car up.
I’ve personally followed these guidelines for the last 3.5 years, and haven’t flooded the engine yet (now touching wood).
If the worst does happen and you flood the engine follow Mazda’s guidelines initially (described by crabacle above), and if that doesn’t work try druck’s solution (above).
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January 8th, 2012 at 3:53 am
Hello all, after 4 days of aggravation, I hope I can clear up some ?’s and confusion with these cars. I am an aircraft, motorcycle and car technician, so I hope my input helps.
After disassembling my engine and cleaning injectors, sensors, throttle body..etc, I put everything back together, only to find that the engine would crank but not start. There was no spark at the coils, though they were getting power and had good ground at the connectors. I had already replaced all plugs, wires, and coils previously.
After several hours spent diagnosing every system, this is what I found.
1. The rotary engine will at some point flood, in my case this was due to water contamination not allowing spark…then excessive fuel from cranking not allowing spark.
2. There will be no spark at the coils until the combustion chambers are cleared. Do this by removing fuel inj circuit relay and fuel pump fuse, then crank for up to 10 seconds, with 10 second or so rest periods for the starter, for up to 5 or 6 tries. If the engine is REALLY flooded, you will have to remove the spark plugs and crank using the same pro desires. Clean and dry plugs thoroughly. You know the engine is clear when you no longer see fuel mist, oil mist, or water puffing out of the spark plug holes.
3. Reinstall spark plugs. Attach plug wires
4. Reinstall fuel inj circuit relay, but leave out the fuel pump fuse. This will insure that any fuel remaining in the injectors will combust, but you will not flood the engine again.
5. Proceed to crank the engine at 10 second intervals while slowly and repeatedly depressing and releasing the accelerator pedal. This will take quite a while…up to 30 mins or so. Be sure to have a battery charger or jump vehicle available, or you will quickly drain your battery.
6. At some point the engine will catch and rev a few times before shutting off. Install the fuel pump fuse and again crank the engine at tten second intervals. This may take several minutes as the fuel system repressurizes. Crank the hell out of it until it and slowly depress and release the accelerator pedal untill it catches and idles. The exhaust and blow by will be severe for a few minutes. Allow the engine to warm to normal temp before doing anything else!!
7. Drive the vehicle. HARD! Smack the rev limiter a few time to clear the carbon and unburnt fuel from the system.
8. Some other things to check if you can’t get the car to start ( and remember..it may take a stupid amount of cranking!!) check the eccentric shaft position sensor for dirt, water, metal shavings, broken connector etc. It is attached right beside the main crank pulley very close to the toothed plate. It is a hall effect sensor that determines when to fire the coils. REMEMBER, a flooded engine won’t spark anyways, so don’t assume the ESPS is bad because there is no spark. They are very simple and rarely go bad, so cleaning the sensor and harness will usually keep it working fine. Also, when was the last time the coils and plugs were replaced? More thn 30k miles? Replace them. Make sure the wires re replaced at the same time.
Check all fuses for fuel pump, ignition, etc.
As a final note…it is my belief that when severly flooded, the rotor apex seals will either stick in their grooves or simply not seal against the housing, basically giving all the symptoms of an engine with no compression. This could be due to carbon build up against the apex seals getting “gummy” when washed with so much fuel…I had quite a lot of tarry black goo come out of this thing when I cleaned/de flooded it. Also be careful what motor oil you use, or you will get carbon build up in short order. Use Mobil 1 synthetic or Motul. No Royal Purple ( great oil…just not for rotaries).
I hope this helps! Any ?’s email me Torres.Demitrius@yahoo.com